3: “Mentoring is like coaching, right?” Stereotypes in Mentoring

Design Mentorship (00:01.582)
Hi, welcome to the Dizaj Mentorship podcast. Here we talk about the true face of disguise, career path design, mentoring, as well as our behaviors. My name is Kasia Szczesna, I am a behavioral designer and the founder of Dizaj Mentorship. I invite you to learn about the stories of people who bet on courage and change through mentoring.

Design Mentorship (00:26.638)
Hi, my name is Wojtek Ławniczak. Hello, Kasia Szchesta. Hello everyone today. We warmly welcome you to the next meeting dedicated to mentoring. Our guest today is Ewa Kirsch, HR Business Partner with huge practical experience working mainly with corporations, as I understand it. Good morning Eve. Hello, welcome. Today we are going to talk about mentoring from a corporate perspective.

This is from the perspective of a large organization. Our first meeting was devoted to the organization of a new, so-called new business Michał Sadowski. Later we talked to Waltek Olbryk, which is a completely different perspective of corporate law, but it was something that from my perspective is kind of standing on the side of private companies or even family companies, and on the other - corporations.

And today we enter the world of corporations. Without prolonging, we do not have much time, we promised that it would be half-hour shots. Let me move on to the first point. The first question is the most important for me, because the most important things are those that concern us. In the course of our conversations, we touch on stereotypes. We want to talk about it. No and...

Let me ask you about a stereotype that goes through my head. Nomen omen. A mentor is like a big head. We will, in a sense, continue the thread started in a conversation with Waltek Olbryk. Eve, we talked about reverse mentoring. In the context primarily of people who work in corporations, but who are of pre-retirement age. You have a lot of experience working with such people and in such an environment.

Please tell me if there is more concern or desire to experience new things among such people. It always seemed to me that such people would only want to study and would not want to retire and every day would be a fantastic challenge for them. But maybe that's not the case.

Design Mentorship (02:39.264)
This is a very interesting topic in general and thank you very much for the question. First, let me turn to that gray head. I don't know if you've already touched on this topic, but there used to be such a dry spell, how coaching differs from mentoring, how coach differs from mentor, hair color. I say suchar, because this is already completely out of date, absolutely, because we are really talking about this reverse mentoring and what you are saying, Wojtek,

I will tell you, I would like it to be always and everywhere, that indeed people who have a huge baggage of experience, really want to acquire knowledge all the time until the end of their days and to be honest I hope that my mentality will never change and indeed it will be so that despite the gray head, gray hair, I will really until the very end, yes, she wanted to change something by doing upsk reskilling, listening and cross-skilling.

about which, perhaps, in a moment. What I observe is such a great desire indeed, at least on some part of the more mature people, so to speak, to actually acquire new knowledge. And what makes me very happy, most often there are such directions, maybe it will be surprising for you, but these are such digital directions, that is, more mature people do not want to stay somewhere on the sidelines in the context...

New technologies first and foremost. These projects, which are of great interest, are projects created within the organization, somewhere there is such an exchange of experience and information about working with a computer, acquiring skills related to various kinds of new programs, virtual boards, etc. There are even fears that these development aspects will not be so many.

and they will not be on offer, especially for people who may be retiring shortly. And this is such an experience that I still have not only from corporations, but also heard about it and observed during projects that I did for seniors here in Pomerania, where indeed all the people with whom I contacted, because I conducted such workshops with competencies, such softer, interpersonal,

Design Mentorship (05:05.914)
They strongly stressed that they have real fears that they will be sidelined. So I think that this so-called reverse mentoring, or these three words of explanation of what it is about, that younger, younger people with these bearing heads teach these gray heads from areas that they may never have had the opportunity to get to or know these areas before, I actually think it's kind of...

trend or future, if we are to say at all that such mentoring in the classical form or in the classic inverted form will develop. So rather in that direction we can go, which is such concerns that perhaps there will actually not be enough development projects offered for this age group for example. Sure, Eve. If we were to go to the people who are on the board, to the management,

We also talk a little about this approach from cult films here, my husband is a director by profession. These are people who work with people and at some point had to bet even more on soft skills, which you also mentioned. And tell me what it looks like today, who is more adept at all this? Those younger, older ones, are we supposed to talk about age differences here? What does it look like from your observations? Well, listen, considering,

In the case of Barya's film, which Kasiu mentioned, indeed, if we look at what management standards were in force in the 90s, we can guess that it had little to do with serwant -leadership, or with management 3.0, that is, that servant leadership where the leader is supposed to help, not direct, not commission and not to delegate, but to motivate, to invite from below to cooperate.

And now yes, on the one hand we have a big bag of stereotypes about the fact that young people are completely inadequate in interpersonal relationships, in establishing contacts, in communication, that they prefer to write rather than call, etc., and on the other hand, we have a group of people who, perhaps because of the fact that they have acquired their experience, their skills.

Design Mentorship (07:26.574)
at the turn of the years in corporations. Usually in the world they were not in such a role as, for example, a project manager, in order to be able to manage somewhere from the bottom up, a little informally, but all the time they rotated somewhere in these management structures, where they pointed their finger. And now I imagine that such a project manager could perfectly fulfill the role of such a mentor, a mentor to such a person in the context of exerting informal influence.

Especially if a person, I'm talking about a director or a senior manager, wants, wants to disguise himself. Well, without these skills, you know, interpersonal, without this kind of gentle approach, so classic for Western, Scandinavian, French companies, it can really be a problem. You know what, I've also experienced this, this kind of story where...

Young organization, young board Also, when new people entered the project, I was informed that the leader would not have time to respond. And the question is, shouldn't we be talking about what it means to be a leader in today's world? Again, this is a question of all this evolution.

puppets of this management model, yes, already looking so strategically, that is, from this, such typical management. Well, we still have industries all the time, like, I don't want to specifically mention here, but you know, the issues, I don't know, the military, the military, the police and so on, well, these are certain, certain topics, after all, I don't know.

I don't want to say if that's where the leadership sergeant starts to come in and knock on that door. However, again, taking into account the expectations of the younger generation, well, I think that this is a natural direction regardless of the structures and the way of motivation perceived differently and in fact there are different things that are hidden most often under this way of motivating, it has to transform.

Design Mentorship (09:37.132)
to be consistent with the needs of young people. Well, that's why here I think that this mentoring of such soft competences would be absolutely necessary, because now I think like this, how such a director who got there somewhere, and not even a director, even listen, I think of people who just have colossal experience, great experience, but maybe they are not open to feedback and I wonder...

If so, how is such a man supposed to understand that he should change something about himself, right? This is once. And two, that working with such a mentor who is able to point to this person by talking about their own examples, about their own entry into a given path, perhaps an informal influence, I have already become so attached, then I will already go in the direction of this informal influence, can just open up the perspective. And that would be the most added value.

You know, we're talking about work, relationships, how we work together. It seems to me that we should go a little further back in terms of education, because what is happening in the market, I think knowledge is brilliant, only what matters is how we learn and how it is transmitted and what we do with it later in order to consolidate these skills, competences or knowledge. But if we look at the market...

and enter our LinkedIn, then we are interested in information, trainings, courses. And unfortunately, as some self-proclaimed experts, we are also unable to verify whether this is good information for us or correct. So we have not only a problem with quantity, with choice, but also with trust. And also a nice thing you mentioned to me in the interview before this recording.

model 70 -20 -10, when it comes to our development, about professional development. And tell me, where can we put this mentoring or should we even embed it in some structure? River theme, okay, all right. That's maybe three more words about the 70 -20 -10 method, because as it turns out, you know what, few people really know how to decipher these numbers. You have to imagine a bag of knowledge.

Design Mentorship (11:53.998)
useful information, skills, competences, whatever you may call it, because I am afraid to use some specific concepts and I am terribly not so conservative, because it is always worth asking what is hidden under a given concept. We'll talk about mentoring in a moment. So now yes, 70, 20, 10, in total it all makes up 100%, and now yes, if you go to a lecture, this is typically an excatedra speech,

you only have a chance to absorb 10% of this whole treasure of knowledge and skills, because people, adults, simply learn through practice. 70%, as you can guess, is precisely this practice. That is, if you do something with your own hands, if you experience something, some task, you go through some project the hard way, committing alone or with the support of a mentor, listening to what he once fell for, and now perhaps avoiding these mistakes,

You are able to assimilate at a very fast rate 70% of this treasure trove of information. 20% is in turn something like job shadowing, that is, watching someone do something at work. And we know, these tasks can be very simple, but they can also be complex tasks. I'd put mentoring in that 20% because, well, listen, if we're talking about mentoring in this classic way,

well, how I was trained in various mentoring projects, well this is generally a story, I will say so briefly now, such mentoring is based on the experiences of the mentor and such a very cool form, which works well when it comes to transmitting knowledge, that is, telling stories from real life, that is, what worked for me, what did not work out for me, how I worked, I've had some failures.

not advice, but rather based on your own experience. In contrast, such a lecture in the entire mentoring process should be about 5%. And now yes, again, if we prepare mentors properly, thus opening another door, if we prepare mentors properly for the mentoring process, then it really has a chance to work. If we don't prepare, if you come across people who have absolutely no idea what mentoring is, you might end up in a lecture.

Design Mentorship (14:11.822)
OK. Here again the doors open to everyone according to their needs, because again there are people who are at the beginning of their professional path, I just lick this topic, then I will return to this method another 70 -20 -10, but there are people who disguise themselves, they are completely new to the industry for example and for me here mentoring is not necessarily the best method, such in such a classic approach, because in order for someone to move, it must have knowledge.

like ABC, some framework in which he has to move, yes, and this mentoring as for me, I will tell you honestly, it is such a cherry on the cake, that is, I know the environment, I know the industry, maybe I already had experience once, I had experience in the implementation of certain projects, but for example I am stuck for some reason, I do not know what is happening, something does not work out, I hit my head In the wall, I am looking for a mentor based on my specific need or developmental goal who can answer that need for me, I date and I have it.

Yes and a mentor, just as you know, magical, that's how you can choose, such a mentor can be with that gray head, touches with a magic finger and things just amaze. And I'm on a completely different level, discussing certain topics, etc. Mentoring is not counseling, it's not, you know, aunt good advice, uncle good advice, you know, what I advise you in your situation is this, because it's again...

It has nothing to do with mentoring. And now yes, we are talking about the fact that we have completely inexperienced people who need a theoretical background, so one would ask for another form of support at this point. We have people who, I might say, are intermediate in a given topic, so it would be nice to, you know, take someone who would also support it, but it still puts a little bit of this theoretical background into my head.

And then there are the masters who also, look, every master is also cool as if he had a mentor, right? And then we have a master-level mentor. This is the moment when miracles happen. It is this awareness and also the willingness to accept certain knowledge. And the other thing is, what is behind this mentoring? There are still a few digressions like that. There was a moment when I was looking for a coaching board,

Design Mentorship (16:34.368)
And I'll tell you, what I started first of all, I started with a needs analysis of course, I knew that it would not be pure coaching. And now when I called these people, I said, look, I'm going to use the term coaching as such, you know, the term for the development program. Well, because I don't know if it will be coaching, to what extent it will be coaching, to what extent it will be consulting, to what extent it will be mentoring, I don't know. Not only that, there is still a developmental need for this,

It has evolved a lot. Therefore, at each stage with each phone call to another person, I presented the topic a little differently, but all the time, you know, I did not want to put this topic in a drawer and, well, I really ended up consulting, so if there is a course under the motto mentoring, then you have to find out what is really hidden under this mentoring. Well, because one more topic and I don't know what you think, Kasia, but in general as for me, mentoring should not be paid. It's just that.

For me, mentoring is a relationship that can be established for many years, can be renewed at various moments of career, while a mentor is a mentor. This is just someone impeccably pure pattern, example and so on. Somehow I have the guts to think about this process in this way. I'm the one pulling this thread, but going back to that reverse mentoring kind of way.

About two weeks ago, one of my friends posted a post on one of the social networks. She is engaged in broadly understood instruction. And she wrote that classes with seniors, I quote, are a science of empathy and patience. They are able to give immense satisfaction against the appearance of a person, attention, 60 +, with the right guidance they make rapid progress and are very motivated.

Gratitude of seniors for help, attention and individual approach is something truly beautiful and often unheard of in younger age groups. Even though it is a demanding job, I will continue to do so. I was frozen by this post because from my perspective it is pure hers. With the entry went several dozen likes, almost 70 or 80 likes, which gave me, lit such a light that people completely do not understand that in a moment we may have a really big problem related not to whether...

Design Mentorship (18:54.806)
Mentoring programs will be fun and if we have the reverse in principle well, you will be teaching or teaching the technological skills of an elderly person. But we're going to have a problem with edgyism. That's what I hypothesize. What do you say? You know what a chilling post is, but here's the thing, for example, that we're talking about seniors. Seniors I don't know a senior who would. Plus. That's 60 plus.

Well, in the abstract, it's not too long with me, but I'll tell you, you know what, I don't know a senior who would like to be called a senior. This is the first thing, yes, so here there is already an absolute patch and the category of people who, learning less, assimilate knowledge less, should not go in this direction at all. I mean, I'll say from a side like that, too, related to such a cold business. Well, look, we're opening up to different things in general...

business must be open to different age groups, because if we have clients of different ages, then we cannot have only young, dynamic teams, because we will be unreliable to our customers. So that's one of the arguments. The second argument is that there is still a lack of solid hands to work with. So if we open up to...

Again, we will not only look for people for a young, dynamic team, because after all, we know how it is categorized from the recruitment really starts, or from the email campaigns, what we communicate as companies, what people we want, what graphics we have encouraging to apply. Well, you know, if we don't open up, we'll be forever faced with maybe a galloping rotation, or a lack of experienced candidates at all.

Because, for example, people aged, note, 45+, will find that they may not have a chance in this young, dynamic team. They simply or simply will not feel well in the world.

Design Mentorship (20:55.07)
among such young people, because, for example, they have poor experience, so there really needs to be a lot of investment, a lot of work simply put into the world, to show that we are an inclusive employer, that we welcome absolutely everyone, we are open, and in addition, for example, we offer fantastic development programs not only for young talents.

but generally for a very wide spectrum of people, communities that are with us in the organization. So categorizing no, defining people as seniors no, because they don't suffer from it and sorry, and from what age is this senior? Are we talking about senior politicians somewhere out there, or maybe to move away from that, because somewhere out there you know the senior's house all the time and so on, that's all, that's all.

Only somewhere out there is in this language valid all the time. One speaks of Silver Power, one speaks of this economy. On the other hand, there's senior politics out there all the time and this senior is punching in there somewhere. But if we approach the topic in this way, we will certainly not encourage anyone, and we can discourage. I will tell you in these programs of mine, where I have actually met communities of very mature people.

Look, it was sometimes women in their 90s who were screwing on their cell phones. Yes? You know, it's really, it's... I'll tell you honestly, I felt like a little man who says what am I going to say to these women? There are fantastic grandmothers, experienced and so on. What am I gonna say? I agree and I think that the people who are listening to us at the moment will listen to us, they will also agree with you.

Joanna writes in the chat, the elders can also be dynamic, let's not duplicate stereotypes, I completely agree with this, but also my question in this regard is to you, to you Kasia, to all of us who are sitting here, what should we start with, so that actually this risk of agesism, the risk of misunderstanding between generations due to some stereotypes and stigmatization is not happened?

Design Mentorship (23:06.478)
You know, it's so bad. Who should we start with? Is it the case that HR should speak out about it, or should it stigmatize? I started working for a corporation in 2001 and one of the first things I came across was this declaration, this code of conduct, where any kind of sexism, aegyism or anything was...

It was written that these would be stigmatized and in fact were stigmatized, and therefore the environment in which I was raised was an environment that was always intergenerational. We were all talking about you, we were all, we were, addressing each other with respect, whether the person was 16 or 66, but it was a matter of developing a certain corporate culture that had been formed for almost 100 years.

The question is, how in organizations that scale very quickly and that will soon need employees very quickly, they already need, how can you do this, or how to start, so that you can avoid such dangers associated with precisely any kind of stigma. This is such an open question of mine, maybe rhetorical, I don't know, it puts me because I think it might be.

problem. This is what I will add, because I really think that here is a very multifactorial topic and here I see how the participants write in the chat, we will refer to this immediately, but you know what I think and I also learn that sometimes it is worth just waiting and now such

The general question of whether we want to wait, the question of how long do we want to wait, but look, some processes are going to wonder anyway. Awareness increases and education, so I would start with that first. I would start by using language that doesn't hurt, that doesn't stigmatize. This is, first of all, such a carrier of culture in the language hides that it does not fit in the head. So the question of this...

Design Mentorship (25:09.676)
You know that we are not talking about people with disabilities, just people with disabilities. And about this, few people still know. The word Eskimo should have been crossed out of dictionaries a long time ago, right? And other stigmatizing things and words that come up because I don't know, Whites have colonized some area. It's not a topic right now, because it's about diversity at all, but it's a question of education, awareness, I'll tell you how I sometimes talk about it,

what concepts should we no longer use, because we are already, you know, we are an advanced civilization, then I often meet with indignation and misunderstanding, that is, or, for example, invalid, an offensive word. So, you know, these are nuances, let's start with ourselves, let's look at ourselves, let's start looking on our own, educate ourselves, especially in language issues, not stigmatizing, because it has such a two-sided tone, it's a little smaller, double-edged, it's one of the people,

Suczestniczek wrote that let's not categorize that, in general, more mature people can also be dynamic. Yes, I agree. I was just afraid of that and I'm afraid that the message that we are recruiting for a young dynamic team, he immediately sifts out mature people for us. Because we know that a mature person can be dynamic, it does not mean that this person will not feel uncomfortable reading such a message.

Well, the topic is extremely complex, right, so we have to start with ourselves. Kinga writes in the chat, I worked for 3 months in a company, where I was ordered to recruit people only up to 30 years old. 40 too old does not work.

Well, it probably doesn't get along, because the band was with an average of 20, I don't know, 3 years. So again, it all depends on how we shape it all, because if we start building diversity from the beginning, everyone gets along in this diversity team. Paul posits the thesis that openness to change and willingness to learn do not matter, not age. An example must go from above from the boss...

Design Mentorship (27:15.774)
PO -HR, openness and honest conversation. That is, this management, according to what Paul writes, with which I completely agree, should start a discussion together with the support of, of course, anyone who is engaged in cooperation with people or work with people. I also think that while I totally agree with you that we should all work on each other,

I have the same feeling that in reality, where several hundred or several thousand people work, in which a few hundred or several thousand people are going to start in a moment the riots associated with this reskilling, with shifting positions, with hiring new people, or else these older employees for new positions, for example, I think this should be codified, fixed in some way. It should be something, this should be something that imposes, sorry, some kind of framework.

to this reality that can happen to us, which can result from different things. We may be completely unaware that the language I use is non-inclusive, for example. Of course. But I think it should still be the result, I think aloud, of some programs or some codification. Well, look at this process of reskilling, abskilling, well, it's, you could say, it's new.

The fact that we change, we disguise ourselves, it is a kind of everyday life, but it is increasingly popular, dynamic and the market will also demand it from us. If we talk about these structures, because I thought that you can start from yourself, from above, you can create a new structure for reskill, jabskill and say openly that this is not just for young, dynamic people.

Why do we have these young highlights? Just like you say what it means to be a young actor, it's a senior. I realize that we can go to state topics, funds, where they also emphasize the development of seniors. And yes, Eve, I totally agree too. These people do not want to be called that and they are fully aware, efficient, eager to acquire knowledge. Therefore, I think that if we are to talk about new...

Design Mentorship (29:35.98)
I don't know if trends, new things like rescaling, upscaling, it's worth saying that it affects us all and approach it openly. And although I am anti-structure, it can also give us a new structure, a new reality focused on openness.

Well, I will also refer to what Wojtek says, that here, too, the participants also partly agree with the topic that you know the fish spoils from the head and so on, but let's remember that ok, in corporations in this respect it is easier. Because, you know, corporations are characterized by frameworks, codes of conduct, codes of ethics and so on, so it's easy here. On the other hand, again, corporations are huge creations.

And the fact that there is some written code, people are obliged to undergo some training, it does not mean at all that they will care what is written in this training, and they can simply click through the training. And that's the reality, so that's why, look, really, growth starts with yourself, with reading, with searching, and that's what I'm thinking right now, well, corporations by corporations, we assume we have a startup.

Well, again, we have leadership in a startup that may never have been in a corporation. That's how does such a man know that he should do something like that, establish such a thing because he was never a senior. Because no, because, for example, yes, because a very young team is hired. I also have such experiences where I was probably one of the oldest people in this startup at all. This is a phenomenal approach and I find an extremely valuable experience.

I wonder if this is my role. Really, we need to practice that sensitivity in ourselves. And listen, as much as it is easier in non-hermetic environments, so heterogeneous, that is, we have cultural diversity, age diversity, but in the west you have known flight attendants for a long time, now you should also call cabin crew, that is, simply cabin crew, not flight attendants.

Design Mentorship (31:42.302)
were already employed as mature women, not just such young, such exceptional beauties as from the Mazowsze team. Well, it shocked us a bit once, I remember as Poles that Stojardesa and he can be at such a mature age, wow. In the West, these changes have been taking place for a long time, they have happened, etc., etc. You know, what I personally had a grudge with, that in Poland, front-end developers are mostly very young people.

And when I look at foreign colleagues, these are gray heads. I'm telling you guys, IT has been in the west for so many years, you know, these frontend, developers, these are people who are really going through a very big evolution in their career in IT. In our country IT is really young people in shoes, there is this stereotype, yes, at the express machines in corporations, in offices, now remotely, and in the west, these are really mature people, so...

It is, you see, a question of what environments we rotate in, what openness we have and simply whether we are shaken with this diversity or not.

I see that Joanna writes, I don't know Wojtek, would you like to comment on this, because we have some topics in the chat, I understand that we will stop at the end, yes? I think we can move on to it now. I think we can move on now, yeah. Joanna wrote a great idea with this code of condemnation, it is then a framework that everyone can refer to and HR leaders cultivate. That is, I put such a hypothesis, I do not know if it is actually so, it seems to me that I think...

I think in terms of what demographics look like, what it looks like from a business perspective, how fast these changes are going to happen, because these changes are going to happen really fast. It's not a matter of a dozen years, it's just a matter of probably two, three years and these movements have already, basically they have already begun. It starts to be talked about, and it means that someone is already being touched by it, that these people are beginning to be moved from positions to positions. It seems to me that we have a little bit of time to

Design Mentorship (33:49.526)
To get used to making a habit, we can do it in parallel. However, looking at it from the perspective of the organization in general as such an activity of the organization, efficiency, because this is basically the key to the fact that those teams that can get along with each other over divisions, over generations are able to perform the beautiful Polish word sorry. I would argue that this work always has to come from two sides.

Just as a mentor and mentee are supposed to have benefits should and this is valuable to the mentor and mentee, it's the same in the company. The company can tell us about the code, about some framework, but employees should also think about their values, about what they want. In the old years, how someone entered a corporation was somehow directed, how he gets promoted, how he develops, and at this point we don't have such a structure as...

This is the path of preparation, as we are going to develop and many people get lost. And I think that too... And many people get lost, many people don't either, nothing... Listen, I did not comment on this post of this friend of mine, that she is this woman, I did not pay attention to her because I was afraid. Because I was scared that they would eat me, because that's where the laughs started. How wonderful, how beautifully you wrote, but it's touching. Water cock, I was moved too, but it was the reverse of the emotion.

Well, just how for me someone got involved in the fact that somewhere there emphasizes their merit and so on and so on, so anyway I would offer to give feedback and somewhere there even so delicate with the topic that maybe these seniors are not worth talking about as seniors, but just people, right? Just like women, I don't know, there is also talk of aegysm, yes? It's hard to even change.

in the category of young people who think that they are repeatedly overlooked in different processes, or even on the path of promotion due to too little experience, as it is defined, so the subject is complex, we must be attentive, open, and one more thing, given this openness and such, this less conservatism, I think, it is also in the context of mentoring...

Design Mentorship (36:07.726)
I don't know if this name will continue to function here for a long time, or it will simply be a matter of some kind of, you know, some simply developmental programs, because it turns out many times that under this mentoring there is consulting, there are various other aspects and you know what, it is very close to me, so I would come up with some general name, i.e. As needed, that is...

A person who is new to the industry and here refers to what I have already mentioned, will want other proportions of knowledge versus a specific practice, so in general some kind of cool slogan, development program, I don't know if some career development, something will have to be invented, some other word, so as not to really categorize this mentoring, because it is not always mentoring, it is sometimes just a lecture, it is sometimes a little lecture, una piccola pratica, o una molta di pratica, così...

Well, this is not mentoring, so let's not stick to these terms maybe when we come back. It would be nice to have a name contest. I think this is where we turn to design. I will always say that this is development design, career design, business design too. We are in different situations as you say.

We must and should return to our needs in order to continue building. Et le retour à ce thread, que Wojtek mentiert sur les seniors et comment le discussion, Je pense que cette conversation, notre recording, doit être un nouveau début sur la fait que vous à la manera que nous taler et de plus de plus d'aperne personnes sur le topic que nous nous

we repair and mention it, and we know that it is not beneficial and does not have a positive effect on many people who put a lot of blocks. Så jeg hoppe de mennesker som løst til dette, jeg tror vi kan öppna en diskussion ikke bare i dag i chattrum, som var meget intens og vi er forbedre til det, men også att vi kommer att öppna dette discussie på andre sociala nätverk och...

Design Mentorship (38:23.694)
and we will talk about it openly. I think it is worth closing our conversation on these bars, because we are already running out of time, so I thank you very much Ewa, for finding time for us, Wojtek, for leading this conversation and all the people who participated physically, but also in the chat were able to share their opinion and ask a question, so thank you again.

Et nous continués la thread de mentorage, mais également le développement dans les meetings suivants, qui vous à l'information sur votre site et sur autres redes sociales. I will only lift the edge of the mystery that the next topic or one of the next topics will be family businesses, small organizations whose meaning of existence is to the last. We'll see how it goes there.

I'm looking forward to it, so we'll keep you posted. Grazie ancora. Thank you very much. Thank you very much. Silav. Silav.

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