20: Innovation in Business

Design Mentorship (00:06.062)
Hi, welcome to our little Design Mentorship studio. Today I have another special guest. Hi Aga. Hello, sweetheart. We have Aga Makowska, who will tell us a few words. What do a few words deal with, I think a few sentences, because that's quite a lot. Aga, what do you do for the day? Well, that's a good question.

Well, what am I doing? I'm still looking, I'm still looking, but I think we're going to focus on innovation today, yeah? On such a limb, because that's why we meet here. I look out the window and I have a nice view. Well, so what? And we'll see what comes of it. Oh, no, oh, no.

Share with your listeners where you are from. The listeners, yes, because they are the listeners. Wait, I'm working on the phone at all, I don't know how this will turn out. I am developing, so to speak, my business. I try in the context of quoting, mentoring and consulting in the area of innovation as well as human development.

Help people find what they really want. Because I had been searching all my life, I thought I had found it, then it didn't come out again. So much too. I don't know what that sounds like, listen, at all. 20 years at KORP - maybe, in project management, in program management, in innovation. Tribute. Hiding time. Not very specific.

Well, maybe he'll go out in the laundry. Well, exactly. Ah, maybe that's the first warm-up question. I think it's worth developing a topic in general, which is I think abused and not always well understood. By the way, we have also recently talked about what exactly are the ramifications of what innovation is in general. How have you been sitting in this for 20 years, how do you actually understand it now, how do you explain this notion of what innovation actually is?

Design Mentorship (02:26.07)
Well, I'll say I still don't understand a lot of things. And I say this specifically because there is no clear definition. If you start digging around, there are really different definitions of innovation. The one I like is the idea and its implementation, implementation, that is,

Showing something to the world that brings value. For me, people are very important and this is where I really started my adventure with more conscious innovations, innovation management, processes related to innovation, innovative companies.

Yeah, but I still think I'm all over the place, there's no one definition, there's a lot of them, you can google it. There are also innovations that you have certainly heard and that is why it is not possible to say it in one word or sentence, always everywhere, because there are innovations that are small, small a little more, I do not want to say improvements, but there are also such.

that destroy, so to speak, a given industry or sector. Yeah, well, I guess everyone knows Airbnb, which kind of disrupts hotels, so to speak, yes, even booking. They beg you to take a break here, because I'm glad you know, you talk about looking and I think the more you have to look in the market,

a train is coming, which is loudly called AI. And at this point I think there's a bit of a new deal of cards and sticking to one theory and one, I don't know, one concept can lead to the fact that it's just sometimes too late and you have to look at it all broadly. Somewhere else, I have also encountered such a bit of excitement about innovation. Maybe it's in the startup world, because you had to...

Design Mentorship (04:48.68)
show that the project is innovative and actually what it means. It's nice that you said about this implementation to see how it works, because sometimes it seems to me that the last element is missing. We talk a lot about it, we have a market of ideas, a market of ideas, everything is so cool, and when it comes to doing it, there may not be this innovation anymore. I'm curious how you work with it, how you worked.

You know how to deal with it, how to implement it, because the topics can be really many steps forward for the company, for the team, for the leaders, and you have to show them step by step what needs to be done here, which is of course the best for such. I am in favor of not only talking, but acting, so how to act with information.

Then again I will use my example, when I was introduced after studying design, management, because I wanted to do something all the time in banking, I got into IT, then something appeared to me that I could, and I was in business, I am not technical, I really wanted to be in technology, I was always attracted.

and I remember we struggled with how to prioritize certain changes. And a man appeared. Then came design management. I wanted to be a designer, but my professor friend said, Agnieszka, you sit in projects, you do this software, services.

Go in this direction of management. I design management you have a one-year degree, not a five-year design management degree. Well, it went anyway. And once I went, it was a design service. Then came design thinking. And it occurred to me that let's put it in. So I'm talking for a long time again, and it's really about practically. For me it was so practical very, applicable and not just philosophical. But then that was the case, and it often happens.

Design Mentorship (06:58.55)
At least for me, for sure, to move around a little, I already knew myself there, I read a few books. Well, I really wanted to work in innovation, and because in the company where I worked, WNG, in 2014, I think a global innovation cell was created, so I decided to apply and push myself there.

because I pushed myself with the fact that I know about such and processes, then I was given chances, I was given chances and it seemed to me that I would say now, because I know what the product development process looks like, then I will say that there at the very beginning it is this man and we have experiments and prototyping and we will go to...

Well, the team that I confronted first said it, but how prototypical, but what with customers in general, after all, we will not come out as a stable company and we will not, so to speak, test it with people. And that was the first one you know, a clap, so to speak, and the wall, but then we moved on after the conversations and of course it...

then we didn't set up a process for exactly how to innovate. Well, together with Waller, we created such a guide, so to speak, how to innovate, what it looks like, full of tools, 100 pages, so to speak, a printed textbook, a million references.

No one had read it, and those who read it did not know what it was. So you know, trial, I thought I was gonna go in, say trial, we're flying, right? And that ass is pale, because... And what about the trial? And we are Lean Startup, and we are Design Thinking, and we are something else, and we are Extreme Programming and all, and we are agile and in general there is the same thing. Well, you know, and it's like that again.

Design Mentorship (09:17.74)
Who are a few people, so to speak, for an entire organization that is mega innovative. And this was the first such collision with the fact that you can want, but if you don't involve people, nothing will come of it. We also went further.

we have come up with different ways, how, so to speak, to teach through engagement, yes, through practice. And I hung up, because in general, because I was already there with my thoughts, I thought, thoughts, I came back, what happened 10 years ago and what path we went.

just engaging people, engaging leaders, that's the whole system, right? As I was thinking, they'll get a trial and we'll go, and then it turns out there are still sponsors who say, we'll give the money or we won't. It's like pitching your idea, and in general we're busy, and in general that's why innovation.

And suddenly the strategy comes out. This is my thought process, just to be clear, because those who are familiar with this will probably say, uh, everybody knows that. I didn't know my time. Now I know how important this is. But pause to you Aga says it was 10 years ago, and I see a lot of transfer to what's happening now. Lack of commitment, lack of trust, a problem in team building that is wildly relevant.

We live in an online world now. I think you guys were at the workshop together at the time, colored notes, yeah. So this motif of such a novelty and these tribes basically we are, we are derived from such. Here is service design, here maybe lean, here maybe design thinking and everyone is talking about something different. And now I think that even though it was, you could say, about Jesus, 10 years ago, which is so many changes, but...

Design Mentorship (11:31.888)
In terms of people, I think we're back to the kind of moment you're talking about. To create something behind you and it has to have value. In design, I personally began to miss it. A lot of workshops, a lot of training, a lot of projects that end up testing somewhere. And where is the implementation? Where is the market validation? Where are the proposals that have recommendations with translation for teams? What are they actually supposed to do and not...

Okay, that'll be fine, and let them handle it. Like you said, you have 100 pages and no one is going to read it. What am I supposed to do with it, even if I understand it, so I see very big connections about what you're saying and what to do next with these people, how to work with them, how to take them on this board or on this train, to something that might be quite far away, right? How can innovation be.

Design Mentorship (12:31.212)
Now hold me, because I can fly away again. Let's focus on this engagement of people, because that's how I heard we're online. My observation from Madeira is a little different, because I was looking to see if I was looking for some orders too and...

Many companies already have, there is no remote, there is a hybrid life, but I would already have to be in Poland, for example if I want to cooperate with Poland. There is less and less remote work. This is my experience from the past few months, which surprised me, so I wanted to bounce back from this online. Second thing, what happened 10 years ago.

I will also say that the company I worked for is moving forward all the time. And the fact that there was something that worked ten years ago, now it is way ahead, so to speak, when it comes to the market. Even though I'm not there anymore, they're definitely, definitely a lot more forward, hence this experience that I think can be used right now.

When I did that, we also made mistakes that we learned from, didn't we? And if you talk about engagement, there was also something about the cards and the teams, you know, sometimes I worked as an innovation coach, mentor, coach, you know, so to speak, practically supportive,

In so-called accelerators, we called them accelerators, probably they should be called incubators of ideas that we have just developed and tested. I remember how sometimes the band members would come and talk, but they laugh at us, that we don't do anything there, that we are just notes, heheshki.

Design Mentorship (14:42.06)
And there was a good deal of trouble just, yeah. And standing up, I always said it, is standing on its feet, and suddenly it stands on its head, because suddenly the team gets, I call it, this empowerment that is talked about, but that is, the team is responsible for bringing the topic, for the realization, and not Jasiu or Franek or Kasia for their area, they just go together. This is a different way of working at all.

where the sponsor or the boss, who gives the money, gives space, because it is also a separate space, where you can work, just stick these notes somewhere, but also time for that, right? So there were teams that worked full time only on the development, on the data...

The challenge I had said, because we usually worked on challenges, from which later some product or service, or product and service was created most often. And what, so it was once that I work in a different way, which is I don't know, I'm a manager, I'm in development, I'm supposed to know, or the boss is supposed to know and says do it, right.

And here it was, we have a challenge, do as if you come up with something, yes? A completely different approach, that is, a sponsor, the boss, as it were, becomes a mentor, a bit of an investor, who evaluates what is happening, supports the team, and what? And I drove off again.

As I understand what you are saying, that is, this organizational culture has a huge impact on how we create these service and innovation projects. Yes, I also saw such situations from experience, I see, I still see, yes? Even talking, I recently had this conversation with one of the CEOs of companies who just said let's do this,

Design Mentorship (17:02.166)
Let's do the training, they just called Proposition Canvas and train the bosses, and then the bosses will tell their people and then they will be more involved and prepare better deals for the company. But if people get a Canvas that can be explained very quickly, that doesn't mean they'll know how to make an offer.

that they will know how to talk to the client, to find out what ailments he has, how they can address them. It is also an innovative approach or a human-centered approach, when you get to know the organization and its challenges, but also the people who, so to speak, are struggling with a given topic.

So it's not just about training. I see things like that, situations like that. Someone tells me, well we implement innovations, then training. Well, again, only with the trainings themselves you know that, presentations can be made. You can even hand -in such practical workshops, but it is often the case that if you do it in situations that are from

connected to what is happening in our company, that is, on examples, I don't know, creating a bag or an application, and we are doing something else, then people do not know where to catch it, yes, that's why I am again satisfied with the fact that whatever we do, we practically do on what is close to you, because then it starts to click, because it is, I think, that innovation is simple and we complicate it.

So innovation is simple for me again, of course because I'm already sitting, because I've eaten some teeth, I've read millions of books and I'm already able to see, oh, it's about the same thing, for example, or it's not that difficult at all, I complicated it. Of course, this is probably about me, and I'm already implying to others that they do too. But what I see is that innovation, implementing innovation is not just training, implementing innovation is not just

Design Mentorship (19:25.9)
teams that are given space and say, well, have fun.

Design Mentorship (19:42.284)
It seems to me that everything that resonates with me and what I observe is that innovation is expensive. Now it is difficult, we are cutting costs, we do not have time to innovate. While I am a supporter, it is first of all the charms of these innovations that they do not have to be very expensive, but on the contrary, thanks to the fact that we think about something,

In other ways, it may turn out to be simpler, easier and just less engaging people. Now you're talking about AI, throwing it in or adding it. I don't know much about it at all. I'm trying to figure out what it's all about, what possibilities it has. I'm sitting with GTP chat for now.

I listen to these stories that I really liked. No, I don't do it at all, my head is too small for that. I've never been an expert, you know, I love working with people who know technology, what's new. You know, I worked with blockchain projects, then I found out that it's not just blockchains or bitcoins, but some kind of distributed ledger technology in general, and now it's probably called something else. I don't understand it at all.

I'm more business-minded and mostly work with teams. How to make teams work well, so that decisions are made, so that we go together. But I'm not an expert, I don't dare call it that at all, so I just know that it will cause, as you say, a big revolution.

I am very much behind you in the context of the fact that we are not going to do some senseless work or one that is obviously about me again. You want to kill me, give me a table of some kind and analytical, such detailed setting of tables, filtering, to extract from a large amount of data some insight that will help you.

Design Mentorship (21:56.574)
prepare a better service or product, because you will know how to solve or what is a problem, something with a challenge. I've always called it a painkiller, a headache pill, not a vitamin. And that's what you were talking about, the delivery.

and innovation that is just buzzing, let's say we're doing an innovative project because we put blockchain in there, but that this blockchain hasn't been used very much yet, or has been used, but not at all needlessly, because you know, the process can sometimes be improved, eliminated, really simplifying the process.

And not to mention the sophisticated, so to speak, technology that is able to correct this crooked process is a waste of life. You sit down, you do the process analysis, you cut, I say it, you do the reengineering and you can really push it into a completely different system for example. No blockchain, no algorithms. Okay, no, I drove off again, because it's me, like I'm telling you, looking at the system and a lot of places.

You know what, I think you can google yourself, well, for me the myths are that it's complicated, that innovation is expensive, that you can do it with one training, that we give, you know, it's also like that to innovate you have to be,

Well, that special copy that, you know, invents something and that not everyone can, that not everyone can be creative. This is what you still hear somewhere, although they are creativity, I think a little less, that it has already disappointed, that we already know that there are different methods that allow us to get out of this kind of thinking, so to speak, everyday.

Design Mentorship (24:15.624)
And perhaps another myth that this is just so, that sometimes it is also the case that you do not take some method and it can quickly be implemented, as if to start, that it will start working. Sometimes it's a little more, right? Someone says that brainstorming, then we sit, we talk, and I remember the workshops that...

were called brainstorming, which was just talk. Where everyone spoke, evaluated ideas, no, that is, about them, no, this is not possible with us, it will not work out for us, no one will allow us here. So I think on the one hand it is just that expensive, difficult, and on the other it seems to me that they appear just like with...

the creative process of inventing something that is simple. I don't know what that sounds like. Everyone knew about it. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Or that you know, someone will come and say, I don't know, I will come and say that I know how to innovate, then I will tell you how to be, right? And I'll tell you, you will do yes, yes, yes, it will, it will work. But no, because that's also depending on what kind of people you have on board, it's...

So this organizational culture that you're talking about is needed for innovation to either flourish or be killed. Because even if, let's imagine the president wants to change something, but below there is someone who says, well, no, it makes no sense, we are here to deny and now we are making targets.

Well, it goes on and even those who want and see value in it, it will not go any further. Damn, I don't know what that sounds like, because I can just complete a little. Well, I'm going further, roundly, because it sounds very good, because I think that this is where the topic of leadership management comes up and in general, I'm interested in your approach and opinion on middle management.

Design Mentorship (26:40.988)
how is it developing because you probably met different letters and this is like for me another topic that is to be questioned at this point in the market what is happening because it seems even the CEO of Spotify here says that some managers do not deliver, they do not bring value and we do not need people who walk the corridors and somewhere so I look at it that this can also be a theme for this year what with this

middle management to do if it is needed and to what degree or how many managers, from my perspective, I met in situations where these managers were a little more than people who performed the work. So tell me from your perspective. It may be from the name because as you say the former person was brainstorming someone had to have a little mastery over that echo someone was driving it.

How does this look from the perspective of leaders? How do you see it from the perspective of leaders and the management of such projects? You just said project management. Project management is... Panga, because I like verbs, you know, it's because of how you can do. Well, well. No, no, no, no. I'm sorry, you just touched me with some really cool things. Because look, we say innovation, what is innovation? There is design, innovative project management.

creating teams that work in innovation. It also depends on what stage of development. There is a lot of uncertainty in innovation. Not all people will be in it. This is also the right composition of the team. These are the appropriate processes. This is a properly prepared company and support that says, OK, that's how we want to be fast, innovative and time plays a role.

Well, we can't wait, for example, in a large company for me to get an answer from the legal, marketing area, or what other one I need to make a decision to move on. In two weeks, or three, because, for example, this is how it happens, yes? Bosses also can't have them available once a week or there once a month.

Design Mentorship (29:00.26)
only of course everything depends, yes, but to simplify, only then at the moment, and since there the band simply has, for example, a number of piots or have discovered something, then waiting for a month means that for a month they will either go into the wrong area, in some area that, well, because they may not see something, not know, do not know some decision.

maybe not a business decision, that is, some information that influences the future direction, so this boss, for example, whether a sponsor or an investor, is needed to find that time, for example. And as I'm talking about it, this is, look, this is the whole system, the whole organization, not just the project, not just one team.

Because the team itself can work, but then if it has any doubts, there is no support, then I think I want to say that it has happened that someone says, okay, we innovate, because yes, because it is people who like it, let them have a little fun there, and people, you know, really get involved because they want to. Each of us seems to me that, I don't think, I deeply believe that.

that each of us wants to do cool things and that's why we work to do cool things and innovation gives power, that's something else. But if the team, the people in the team see that this boss actually did it, so that, well, they get it done, they got it done, and then it's, oh no, and we're not going to implement it anyway, because there's no time, we have to do other things.

you know what happens with motivation and I'm talking about it to say that yes innovation projects require a little different approach and innovation management in an enterprise is not managing a single project. Of course it can be, but if an organization wants to somehow innovate systemically, it's a little...

Design Mentorship (31:20.76)
He needs to see the whole system.

But you touched on a key element, which is called mindset in Old Polish, right? The way of thinking, the approach, absolutely. And now yes, my last experience, many years, teams catch, take, go.

But if the other party that calls itself the boss doesn't see it and doesn't have that mindset, they just have a mindset, show me the money. And money, as we are at the stage of figuring out what this customer really wants. You know, I didn't want to... Because it broke up the moment I was trying to broadcast to the bosses.

and their mindset. Of course, the mindset can be, well, I'm generalizing, of course I'm simplifying. There are bosses, there are people in high positions who see value, who have this mindset. Of course, I'm simplifying with this mindset, but I already came across this concept many years ago,

We don't need middle management, and I would say, hey, if the trainings have teams, if the trainings, if they practically create something teams that were, for example, involved in a given project and pulled this middle management out of its everyday life, yes, that is...

Design Mentorship (33:17.834)
Probably, look, is this the whole system, right? So there is something working, we don't have time, we do, and here suddenly there is innovation, we can also say any other transformation, change, whatever. I don't know, we want to fly further, but there is no time to stop, to think about what we are changing there, we just fly, we want to do everything, that is, we want to do what we always did, still change, of course.

We're probably evolving all the time, but if there's a bigger change, you can't just leave something behind and not do it. This middle management, as I hear it, still has the targets that it had, it still has to bring what it has to bring, and yet it has to, for example, fly its people away or do something that you do not know what will come of it and they still say why he or she is, yes? I know you've been wondering, you've just wondered what they're for, right?

and what they do, because sometimes I think that this is also an underestimated, unnoticed role. Of course again, because it depends everywhere where. I would just like to say, hey, let's turn on critical thinking, or this middle management, it's like it came out of nothing and they don't do anything there. I have a different perspective, right? Some are great at helping, developing people, others are...

materially prepared and not yet for something else and they have other things on their mind precisely, I would say more organizational, perhaps strategic precisely, let the teams do one thing, and here someone else deals with something higher. Well, again, I don't know what that sounds like, but I don't think leadership is all that middle management to throw away.

or there to delete? Maybe somewhere yes, but again you can say, it's like sometimes there's an end-to-end process that goes through different units, and someone says, then we're not going to do this, we don't do this, these activities, and let the other one do what. Well, they say, and we have optimized the process, but the whole chain is still there, only someone else has more, for example, thrown in.

Design Mentorship (35:40.428)
But that way out, from my perspective on these leaders, or the people who are elected leaders, do they have the right qualities? Because I sometimes see such a heavy tendency for junior -senior, junior -mid -senior, leader. And I say, but not every senior can be a leader. These are other competencies. I was just watching...

yet another path, let's take the most reptilian and he doesn't want to do his job, he'll just manage it. So it was such a nomination from the whole team, only he's actually going to be that kind of person between mud and lay, right? Between the team and the board, for example. There hasn't been any special contact with the customer yet, but I wonder if it didn't happen by chance, because what you say is important, someone who pushes it, who closes.

From my perspective, what I've come to know at Harvard is that there's an information manager. There is a manager who connects and structures so that everyone understands properly, because what we see, everyone can see the same data and draw different conclusions. And such a person should understand whether everyone, whether understanding is at the same level, or just, or...

people who are in the team have exactly a good predisposition to be in this team, so I see completely different competencies here than just, hey, let this expert, because he has knowledge, be the leader, but here are the skills to drive this team, to select, but also to show that it is one, it's like, I don't know, football coach, sorry, maybe I'm not a fan Well, but...

But yesterday I saw one of... I know, but... Ted, what was I watching? The coach has a team and he has trained to hit one goal. I see it a little bit, right? That this is the leader, not just that walking head or checking our cameras at meetings or in the hallway, whether people are working. Come on. It's just, well... This is something else, this is working with a man, this is working like him...

Design Mentorship (37:55.404)
to talk to him when there is actually no time and you have to move on, so we are probably touching on these topics here, such soft ones, where in this age the constant lack of time and frustration and I think a lot of uncertainty of what is happening in the market, then I think this is a role that has a very large responsibility and the leader is usually alone. We still have to stop. Exactly, and now speaking of middle management, for me it's something like

There is someone higher, there is someone lower, right? There is someone in the middle and often the one in the middle, for example, gets information, but don't say it any further, right? Or they say to those downstairs, okay, but don't tell those people, do you? But we say, and look, that's where I don't know if I can say I was there. I was between business and IT at the time, so I tried...

So to speak, make these relationships closer rather than finger-pointing. It is they who will not prove it, they have not done it, and those who speak, and those who have not made a decision, and they have it. And, you know, they were supposed to be together. I've also had fantastic bosses who say, hey, we're going together. And it's amazing when we do things together.

And why I go to this topic, I don't know. But we're talking about middle management, which I read in leaders and it's not just leaders, the atypical ones, because that's just how you say it. Well, I have seen many leaders who, just specialists, who became leaders and they were tired, but why did they go? I wonder why, why did you go there?

It's going to be different, isn't it? Well, because they offered me, and if I refused, right? And if I say no, what the hell? And I say, nothing, right? Or you know, even in projects, right? But I can see that no one wants to be terrible anymore, right? But I'm telling you, why are you here, right? Well, I was done with it, because as part of the development, you know... No and, and, and no... You know, again...

Design Mentorship (40:18.112)
We learned afterwards that this composition of the team is important and if the boss says it as a reward. How about a reward? Whoever has structures like that, you know, mega high and has to have everything semi-structured. Manage total risks. It's going to be crazy when it's there... We don't know we're going here, we don't know we're going there, what we're gonna see.

Design Mentorship (40:45.708)
Well, not everyone, they are not suitable everywhere, and the nominations are great or it is just like that, well you say something and it is, you know I don't know, maybe people will ban me at all or I just don't know what will happen after this podcast, but I have the impression that often in large organizations, but also in medium ones, everywhere there are people, there are rumors, there is uncertainty, there is misunderstanding as you said or otherwise, understanding on so many levels.

and you can either build on it or say no, only I'm right, no, that's just how it's supposed to be. Well, you lose people, you know, and just to be clear, I know it from experience, because I'm so smart that I know, I love it, I just remember how my head shook, how I worked in one of the first teams and of course there I knew the kinky as that coach, I'll tell you, but they forgave me, because most of you there, anyway.

Anyway, coming back to the topic, I remember how as a project manager, how we worked with innovations, well I know that there are certain elements that are important or paths that I used to walk doing something similar.

And it worked and it was a success, and so should they. But as a coach, I can throw something, as a mentor I can throw, or maybe this, or maybe that. And they'll come up with something else. I say, well they chuchu, well, I have a wheel, just where I didn't drive at all. Well, look, it came out faster, easier, easier. It's also about building on that diversity of people, no.

And we will probably finish the topic of Diversity, precisely that diversity, multidisciplinary people, people with different flowers in their heads, with different bubbles, can do something really different, unique, but this also has to have the right support. Okay, I'll go into the system again. Very well, very well, Aga, you say. I agree with what I'm seeing, too, that...

Design Mentorship (43:01.356)
We look from different perspectives, but we need a person to translate it into a common language so that everyone understands in which direction, despite the few people who are going from different sides. I'm going one step further. What I have observed among Menti and you too, Agato, have seen that through leaders mismanagement, people are leaving companies. And it wasn't a design, it wasn't the wrong innovation. But it was largely a person...

just the question of whether the manager was it such a leader who was only in name, so such a bit of a negative thought, so I still see it among people, only that the project collapsed, communication was falling apart, we did not get money for something, but here people just say thank you and that's good employees.

Yes. And good and bad, because it depends again. Certainly an approach that at least I support a lot and indeed that the responsibility is in the hands of the team, that is probably also about me. I like a lot of autonomy, right? Yes, my bosses had a hard time with me. And I see what it's like later...

Again in Old Polish, rewording, when people feel that it is theirs, that they are responsible, right? And for example, they're in an innovation team where you work agile, where you're really looking, you have an impact on what you do, right? And you go back to your unit, for example, and there is a standard life, where a boss appears who says, do it like this.

This is changing, this agile already gives us this, this empowerment, product donors, scrum masters, it is already changing, but often it is still the case that the product donor comes and says that it should be done this way. I say, damn it, you don't even know why you're doing this and why I'm talking about it and what does it have to do with this leader. This leader has been educated often, I am almost 50 years old.

Design Mentorship (45:20.132)
I remember when I learned command and control. You have to monitor these employees, look at their hands, and now it is, let's give them free will here, but then there is writing, I hear about such things, writing in chat, to see if someone is sitting there. Workers who go to the computer to move something there with the mouse, so that there is...

Uh, hello, how old are we, right? You know, but why? Because someone was taught that way. And to unlearn this and see that this other way, I even wanted to say that in Poland, but not only in Poland, we are also so taught, you have to listen to it above. He's right, he's higher because he's smarter there. And now we stand on our heads, no!

She is responsible, she is responsible for something else, with strategies, for the vision, you know, this direction just, perhaps the development of people. Now it is said that what, we have a product owner, we have a scrum master, no manager is needed, right? But if the scrum master and product owner, for example, or some member of the team does not manage, so to speak, vacations, because they will not do it, so to speak, so to speak, play some kind of game,

if they do not develop on their own, then perhaps this someone is for something. Maybe it's to develop this unit, the product, to think about why we exist at all as an individual, for example as a company, where we want to go further. Okay, I'm gone again. It's good that we're flying, so Aga, I think we're...

There are a lot of topics and I think we will divide them into more episodes, because we touched on innovations, leaders, teams. I think today the first collision in general with the topic and where it could have led us or also what questions will be in connection with it. I wonder if anyone... Interesting, interesting. I don't know. It worked out. Yes at the end, so approaching the end.

Design Mentorship (47:35.3)
As if we were going to end it with some topic? What would you like to leave your audience with about innovation? How can he start working with it? Or what to do? Well, I'll say yes. To do. Start doing this. Knowledge is everywhere. You don't know, call, wawory five, watch one video. Try it. You know, people feel that way. And just...

I know they can do it, they just have to start. Start stumbling, get ready for the fact that there will be fuck-ups. And that's okay, because you will learn the most from it. One more thing, do not forget about the good practices that have already been worked out. Just as I'm talking about project management, someone hears that no, project management is no longer, because it's an old approach, now it's a new one, now with a startup line.

But Lean Startup, for example, draws on Lean Manufacturing, and someone says we don't. Process management. These are good practices that sometimes people think about, and innovations are their own, we don't look at anything, in general, a total freelancer. No, take advantage of it too, because you are smart. You know, people who work are smart. Just sort it out practically.

Practically, no. I think that as people with whom... Yeah, yeah. I'm sorry, but I'll say again, well, I was lucky enough to work really with practitioners and people who didn't just think about their stools or about showing up and feeding themselves, but going forward and doing something fun. I'm also glad that I'm still dealing with people like that, because it's, you know, beautiful.

Well, I think I have the guts to do at the end. I'm very happy. And I'm learning. I always emphasize behaviors and verbs. And I think this is the time to act. That this time of good quotes is already passing, which I hope, I just have to say, well I'm checking. Aga, that's another question about you. Where can you...

Design Mentorship (50:00.958)
find, as if you were to indicate where the listeners can find you. I think on LinkedIn as soon as possible, there are any links or they will be, as I update them. Yes, LinkedIn is the best and there are leads on me and I encourage you to, maybe we can even drop some phone.

I don't know if I heard one. We will not give everything at the bottom in the description, so it will be possible to click and check further. I encourage you to talk, because sometimes 5 minutes of such a check or to hear myself, I will always find time. I don't expect a million calls, so right, since I'm not on the job, I have But that rarely happens, because everyone cares about their privacy, about how...

you say directly to call, then when I talk to Aga, are we sure we give this phone number, we will also give or maybe some link to the calendar, so I encourage questions, open discussions, to express your opinion. About that, as we are talking here, there are a lot of threads and I think experiences and I am more in favor of opening topics and searching.

And I guess what I'm saying from myself is that as you said about these different approaches, that we should also be, as they require us to be so flexible, then let's also be flexible with all these tools that we come across not only defending our tribe, but maybe also look at what others have and act together, so... Pwent from Aga to do, so with that we end today's episode, so Aga, thank you very much.

Not the first and not the last meeting. Me too. Thank you for the invitation. Hold on, sweetheart.

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